If you could write letters to the most important people in your life before you die, what would you say to them? This is exactly what Dying Out Loud host Kristopher Saim did – he wrote more than 70 letters to his loved ones after he was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer. He joins Daniel Weinberg to talk about living a little louder while you can and putting your finite time on earth to good use. Kristopher also shares how his letters of gratitude and intentional goodbyes evolved into his podcast about legacy, love, and living on purpose – even when time is short. Learn how to appreciate human relationships, embrace positivity, and connect deeply with the people around you in this enlightening conversation.
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Dying Out Loud: Staring At Heaven’s Door With Kristopher Saim
In this episode, we have Kris Saim, the host of Dying Out Loud Podcast and a man who takes us on a journey of what it’s like to be living at the stage of stage four colon cancer.
It is so great to have you on the show. I am very excited for this episode. You’re doing something different. Why don’t you start off by telling us where you are in the world?
Thank you for inviting me. I’m excited to have this conversation with you. I’m located in Kansas City, Missouri, smack dab in the middle of the United States.
That’s the Midwest.
It doesn’t get more central than that.
You started and ran The Dying Out Loud Podcast. I was completely fascinated by this when I came across you. For the audience’s benefit, I’m going to read the description of the show. I highly recommend you tune into it when you can. Dying Out Loud is a podcast about legacy, love, and living on purpose, even when time is short. It is hosted by Kristopher Saim, a leadership coach, speaker, and internal optimist navigating stage four colon cancer.
Getting Diagnosed With Stage 4 Colon Cancer
Let’s start with your life changed when you got the news about stage four colon cancer. Why don’t you talk us through what stage four means? I’d love to hear the emotions and everything you went through in that moment, as well as the processing of that. Let’s start with that because that’s big.
I’ll rewind years ago. In my 30s, I was diagnosed with stage three colon cancer. I went through all of the emotions at that point in time. I was fortunate enough that after two years of treatment, I went into remission.
Can you explain what the stages mean?
Cancer is staged. It starts at stage one. It progresses through stage four. Some people will tell you there is a stage five. For most intents and purposes, people go from stage 1, 2, 3, and 4. Stage one is a very localized cancer. You might have lung cancer. That means you have maybe a small mass inside your lung that can be removed. That is then considered cured and put into remission.
Stage two is a little bit different from that. There may be multiple lesions in a specific organ. When you get to stage three, oftentimes, it’s in an organ, and it’s also in the surrounding lymph nodes. That means the cancer is poised to get through your bloodstream, through your lymphatic system, and then the cancer starts to spread throughout your body.
Many years ago, stage four cancer was 100% a death sentence. When you got a stage four diagnosis, you knew your time was limited. Health professionals could estimate the time based on the activity in your body. They give you a window of 2 years to 5 years. What doctors do now is not so much based on time. When you get your stage four diagnosis, they look at where the cancer has traveled. In my situation, in my 30s, my stage three colon cancer was localized and in the lymph system around my colon. It was able to be treated with radiation, chemo, and an ongoing series of surgeries.
That’s in your thirties. It sounds like a very early age to be getting cancer, no?
Yeah, specifically colon cancer, because colon cancer has historically been an old person’s cancer. When I say old person, I mean someone who is 50-plus. I was considered a young adult. It was a young adult-onset colon cancer.
Does it happen more in men than women, or does it not discriminate sexually?
It’s interesting. It doesn’t necessarily discriminate by gender. However, if you study colon cancer, there are specific groups of folks who are more prone to it. For instance, African American women have very high rates of colon cancer. Most folks do not have any signs of colon cancer until after their 50s. That could be a couple of reasons. Insurance companies in the US normally don’t allow people to be screened for colon cancer until after the age of 50. They have moved that up five years. It’s 45 now. There are also some at-home methods that you can do if you’re experiencing symptoms before you go to a healthcare provider to have a colonoscopy.
How did you know at such a young age? What were the symptoms that made you even go and investigate that? We’re not educated on these things. I wouldn’t have a clue about it. You’re pretty much the first person that I’ve met that’s had colon cancer. It’s unfamiliar territory.
Mind you, when people get to the upper years of their 30s, they’re usually in a good career groove. I was at the height of my career in my late 30s, so this was a blow to me. Since I was in a professional position in an advertising agency with clients as my number 1 focus, I was on call pretty much 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Anybody who works those hours or schedules or has that kind of commitment to the people they’re working with probably experiences a certain degree of stress. I originally chalked up the issues that I was experiencing to stress. They were things like consistent stomach pain and always feeling very nauseous.
The catch, though, for me, was in September of the year that I got my diagnosis, which I’m coming up on the anniversary of, as a matter of fact, I had blood in my stool. I went to the bathroom, did my business, wiped myself, and noticed that there was bright, red blood on the tissue. When you talk about colon cancer, sometimes, the conversation gets a little unsavory and ugly because you’re talking about things like poop. I’m used to talking about it, but it was uncomfortable back then, quite honestly, because those were things you don’t talk to other people about.
That must have been pretty scary when that happened.
I invited my husband to come into the restroom and take a look at the bright, red blood. I said, “This is quite scary.” Knowing my body very well, I knew that I didn’t have hemorrhoids, fissures, or tears. There was no reason whatsoever for me to have bright, red blood in my stool. I went to my doctor, and sure enough, he was like, “We’re doing a scope from the top and from the bottom. We’re going to tag it both ways and see what we can find.”
They knew instantly. Upon doing the colonoscopy, they could see the tumors already there. They had a clear path and a plan of action right away. They’ve seen millions of cases of this across the world. They were very quick to act. Quite honestly, it’s the fastest healthcare I’ve ever experienced in my life. Within a period of a week, I went from getting a diagnosis to being on the surgery table and having a colon resection, which invited a ton of extra things. During that time, I experienced a tear in the work that they had done to resect my colon. I ended up having an ostomy for eighteen months.
Ostomy is the bag, correct?
Basically, it is a poop bag. You have your own bag attached to your stomach. Instead of using your butt to get rid of that, you do that right into this bag. The bag is removable. You take it off, throw it away, and put on a new bag.
You have to adjust your diet, I presume.
You adjust your diet and your exercise. Honestly, you have to adjust the way you show up to business meetings. The interesting thing about ostomies is that they tend to make noise on their own. There’s not a sign that it’s going to happen. There were times when I was sitting in a business meeting with CEOs and CMOs, and I would warn them up front. We would make a joke about it. At that stage, all you could do was make a joke. It’s reality, and we might as well lean into it. We’ll all share in the noise-making.
You say that almost as a side comment, but if I was to envisage myself in such a situation, whether it’s colon cancer or something to that same degree, it would be the first time I can imagine a first serious point in my life where I start thinking, especially at that age, about, “I’m not going to be here.” You have to confront for the first time that you are not immortal. You are a mortal. You can pass. I don’t think a lot of young people think about that too much later in life, when things start breaking down, where you’ve lived a very long time. This is very confronting.
Getting The Right Support System
I want to dig into how there is so much that happened to you in that very short period of time. Who did you turn to? Who supported you? The energy I’ve had with you the last few times we’ve spoken is almost like you are more positive than the majority of people out there, and you are the one who’s dying. That must have been quite the journey to get there.
I want to talk about those early initial periods. I personally feel like, having been through my own things, that your initial period is one of being overwhelmed. You can get very depressed. You can get angry. You can go through a whole cycle of emotions. I want to dig into the cycle of emotions you went through and who you turned to to open up and get that support, which one needs to not feel alone.
That’s a great question. It’s interesting. I think a lot about those days in comparison to these days. In that ten-year time span, I’ve grown significantly as a human being and as a business leader as well. I chalk that up a lot to that experience. Having that experience in my 30s, you’re exactly right. You don’t think about mortality until it slaps you in the face or until you get into your late 60s or 70s. Most people assume they’re going to be blessed with 70 years of life. When you have something like this happen in your 30s, you start looking at, “Have I done all the right things with my children?”
You do not think about mortality until it flaps you in the face when you are in your late 60s and 70s. Share on XHow many children do you have?
I have two grown children. My daughter, Kennedy, has children. My son is Jacob. He also has a daughter. I’m a grandpa in my early 50s. I’m so happy, especially with the way things have come out.
I’m in my early 50s. I don’t think I’ll be a grandpa for a few years. You’re quite blessed.
I am. That’s exactly how I look at it because had this not all transpired the way that it did, I may not have had grandkids until I was 60. Quite honestly, I don’t know that I’m going to make it to 60 at this point. I’m banking on that if I hit 55, I’m going to celebrate. Those emotions in that early stage, I can tell you like it was yesterday. First of all, waking up in the hospital after a twelve-hour surgery and waking up with that ostomy on was the most humbling experience of my life.
I had to deal with changing that bag out on a regular basis, even in a restaurant. There would be times when the bag would fill itself up, and I would have to go and change it in the bathroom. It’s the most humbling experience any human can ever have whenever you have to take care of yourself to that level. It did a lot for me from a mental perspective.
The biggest thing it did for me was it created this drive. I’ve always had drive. I’ve always been a high achiever. I’ve always been a top performer. I excelled in school. The drive was always there, but I had never attacked my personal life with such drive. It had always been very business-focused. In that next decade, the decade that I was in remission, I crossed everything off my bucket list. I moved to Amsterdam and lived there for a full year. It was the most exciting experience that I’d ever had. I crossed all of the places I wanted to visit off my bucket list.
Give me some of those bucket list items.
Amsterdam, cruising the Caribbean, hitting up all the places in Mexico that I could get to, and traveling throughout Europe. The only place I didn’t get to go to was Australia. That is going to happen before I leave this earth. By 2026, it will happen. There was a lot of fun and excitement in those times. I was very blessed to have a job that I could do remotely. It empowered me to travel and live abroad. I have a community of people still in the Netherlands that I communicate with on a regular basis. There’s such a rewarding feeling to know that there’s good energy coming your way from all the corners of the world. It does something for you that medicine could never do.
There is such a rewarding feeling to know that there is good energy coming your way from all the corners of the world. Share on XNavigating Life With A Cancer Diagnosis
We fast forward to my diagnosis, this stage four. I was already well-versed in the cancer world. Whenever they told me what my treatment plan was going to be, I already knew that because I had researched it. I was well-versed in what treatment options look like. I was ready to go. I’m like, “Let’s do the surgery. Let’s get this biopsy done. Let’s see if we can get this tumor out, and then we’ll start the chemo treatments.”
Over the course of these chemo treatments, especially in those first six months, I experienced a darkness that I had never experienced in my life. It was the most depressing. There was no way out. I had a great support system, but even that support system was unable to stretch its hand out and pull me out of the place that I was in.
Give me a day in the life.
A day in the life of those six months, I’m almost embarrassed to say that there was a lot of sleeping and a lot of reading.
Do you remember what you were reading?
Yeah. I was reading every Stephen King book that I hadn’t read. I was trying to get my mind to focus on something that was exciting.
It was to distract yourself.
To distract from reality. The reality is, I became, in those six months, the exact opposite of the person I’d been all my life. I became a recluse. I’m an extremely extroverted person. Usually, people say, “Kris is here.” Kansas City is not the biggest city in the US, but it’s a big, small city. I could walk into any restaurant or bar, and people knew me because I was very social and engaged in the community. People would say, “Kris is here. That means the party’s going to start.” That was how I lived my 20s and 30s.
I’m in a different place where I, all of a sudden, was staying at home all the time. I didn’t want to be social. I don’t know if I was doing that to protect myself from the intense connections that I had, thinking at that time that I was looking at a nine-month window for my life expectancy. Early on, based on the patterns that I had, it was looking like 9 months to 2 years was likely going to be what my reality was.
There was a point in month five in that dark time. Mind you, in the US, they do prescribe pain pills, like oxy and morphine. I have a pharmacy of pain pills. I honestly thought at one point in time, as I was lying down to go to sleep, my husband beside me and my dog in between us, “Today is going to be the day that I take three times the morphine, and I’m going to not wake up the next morning.”
I don’t know what happened in that hour, but there came a time when I decided audibly, “This is not going to be the end of me. I am not going to throw in the towel.” I told myself at that moment, “Tomorrow is a different day.” The next day, I woke up, reached out to my employer, and said, “I want to come back to work. I don’t know what it looks like yet, but if you’re willing to work with me, I’m coming back, and I’m going to attack this life.” I did that.
Mindset shift is what happened. You went, “I’m turning this thing upside down.”
People tell you that stuff like that happens. Until it happens to you, you don’t believe that it is possible that you can shift your own mindset. In that moment, energy from the universe, or whatever you want to call it, said, “This is not the way that you’re going to end.” The next morning, I woke up and made that phone call. I gave myself an extra two weeks.
At the end of that six-month period, I did go back to work. I knew I couldn’t do the same job because I couldn’t be that 24/7 person anymore. I needed to put my own health first. At the time, every other week, I was out of the office for three full days. Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday were my three chemo days. I was completely exhausted and wasted. I had no energy. There was no way I could show up for a Teams call and be the person that I am.
They worked with me. Not only did they work with me, but my CEO said, “We know that you have skills and abilities. You’re a pillar of our culture. We’re going to do whatever we can. You tell me what you think you can do, and that’ll be your job.” That was a powerful moment for me. What that has done is it has allowed me to completely shift my perspective in the same industry.
I’m still working for an advertising agency. It’s one of the greatest advertising agencies in New York City. Never in a million years did I ever believe that I’d have an office in the World Trade Center, and I do, because I’m a small-town Kansas City boy. New York City is the city everyone knows around the world. That’s where I work. I work remotely, but there’s an office for me there whenever I’m ready.
It has been the most transformational thing I have ever identified in my life. There’s the support and the community that has gathered around me, from a personal perspective, because lots of people get that from their personal life. What they don’t often get is that same sense of appreciation, love, and gratitude from the people that they work with. I have truly found that. We have probably under 1,000 people globally. From Toronto to New York, California, and Bangalore, India, there are people who are sending their thoughts, their energy, and their prayers. That has done something for me. I’ve passed that two-year mark. I’ve stopped looking at life expectancy.
Becoming An Executive Coach
There’s an hourglass that sits on my shoulder. It’s invisible, but it’s here and it’s ticking by. I feel that every single day. Every day, I want to make sure that I am learning something new. That might sound like a load of shit to some people. As sure as I’m sitting here on this screen in front of you, I learn something new every day. I try to teach something to someone every day. I’m blessed with this job as an executive coach. I work on training and development programs.
How did you start that? How did you transition into that?
I told my CEO, “I could make a difference if we did this.” He was like, “I like the sound of that.” I went and talked to someone who used to be my coach in our organization, who is now my direct boss. I said, “I’d love to explore an opportunity with you.” He’s like, “I’m going to add somebody to the team now. We’ll not do a third. We’ll add you to the team.”
I had some things to learn. It was the first time that I’d ever been behind the scenes at an agency. I’ve always been the face of the agency, the voice of the agency, and the client’s partner, but for the first time, I was going to focus on the people who make all the magic happen. People, from day one, have always been why I have done this business. It’s the awesome, creative minds that you get to work with.
It’s the way that we can energize each other in a boardroom. Getting to focus on them and their development did something for me that the chemo could never do. Even if I only get to do my life’s calling for 3 to 5 years, I’m going to leave the best mark on this world that I possibly can. It has been truly amazing. When you look at me, I don’t look like a sick person. This is what I love.
Do everything in your power to leave the best damn mark in this world. Share on XIt’s on the contrary. Your energy is off the chart. It bounces out of the screen. For someone who claims to be terminally ill, I was like, “Are you sure?”
That’s a silent thing that people face whenever they’re blessed. I say blessed because I am very blessed to get to show up with this energy because I know people who are at the same place in their journey as I am in mine, and they can’t get out of bed in the morning. That is because of the support structure that is around me and how rewarding my work is to me personally. I want to do as much as I can in this role because I’ve wanted this role my whole career. This is what I was building for, and it’s finally here.
It’s the type of work that I don’t take stress home with me. Work is providing no stress whatsoever. For the 1st time in a 30-year career in the same industry, that’s unheard of. In the last agency that I worked at, I was the head of the client partner function. I was an executive vice president. It was the pinnacle role of my career that I thought I had been working for forever, but not at all. This is the pinnacle role.
I have zero direct reports. I get to help people with their business strategy, figure out their career paths, and all of these things that, one way or the other, I probably have left a mark on more people than I ever thought possible. When I am no longer here, there will still be people who are like, “I remember whenever Kris and I were having this conversation. He helped me figure out that I had exactly what I needed in my head all the time, and I’ve got the answer that I need.”
That light bulb moment, whenever I see that go off in people’s heads, that’s like a reward for me. When you can help somebody figure out that they already know the answer that they’re looking for and they just need to hear themselves say it out loud, there’s something magical about that. All of that has led to the energy that you see before you. Anyone that you talk to, whether it be a coworker, a friend, or a family member, they’ll all tell you that I’m this energetic until the fatigue sets in, which is usually not until 6:00 or 7:00 at night, and then I’m very chill and quiet, like, “I need to watch TV for a bit.” This energy, I thrive on it.
I don’t know who I’m praying to because, for me, it’s a little bit of a cloudy picture, but I do. When I do pray, I hope that it comes fast, quick, and when I don’t expect it, because I don’t want to get to a point where this energy isn’t there anymore. This energy is who I am. Without it, my identity is completely gone. I’m leaning into it as long as I can because I do know there will be a day when it stops feeling like it does. I will know that that’s probably the beginning of the end for me. That’s the thing I’m most scared of, quite honestly.
People ask me all the time, “Are you scared to die?” I’m not scared to die. Quite honestly, there is a place called heaven, and there’s a seat for me there. I’ve lived a life that’s going to get me there. If there’s no eternity or whatever afterwards, then I’m happy that I’ve had all the experiences that I’ve had. I’ve invited death a number of times in the last few years to come and take me, and it still hasn’t yet. Something doesn’t want me at this point in time, but whenever it’s ready, I’m going to be ready, too.
My family, even though they’ll be sad and crying because I’m not here physically, are prepared. That has probably been one of the biggest sources of joy for me. We talk about death regularly in our family. We don’t talk about it like, “It’s probably going to happen tomorrow.” That’s not how we talk about it. We talk about the fact that it is real and that any of us could go at any time, quite honestly. From the percentile, if we were playing a gambling thing here, I’m probably the person who’s going to go first. It’s been an interesting journey. My kids have been so phenomenal in dealing with this.
How A Cancer Diagnosis Impacts Personal Relationships
There’s the segue. What I want to ask is, how did your husband, kids, and mother respond? They’ve been through the journey with you, so they would’ve had the initial impression that you got over that hump. How have they responded to the initial and the stage four situation?
When I was first diagnosed in my 30s, my kids were much younger. It was a big shock to them. I remember we brought the whole family together. It was their mother and my ex-wife, my husband, and my parents. We were all sitting around the table together. Everyone knew except for the kids. This was the chance for us all to be together to support them and their emotions.
They both broke down in tears immediately. Hearing the word cancer for a young person means, “My dad’s dying.” We taught them quickly, “This is not a death sentence. We’re far away from that. This is going to be a gross, muddy water experience for a little while.” That’s what it was. Whenever I got my stage four diagnosis and we understood the seriousness of the diagnosis, they were so much better. They still shed tears, mind you, but they were so much more emotionally equipped to handle this. It has been a very proud moment for me to watch them show their resilience and support for me.
We have an interesting relationship. Their mother and I divorced when my son was 3 and my daughter was 7. We went every other weekend. I wasn’t there every day with my kids, but my kids and I have a very special relationship. It has transcended all of the things that we’ve experienced together as a family. This diagnosis has given us a renewed lease on our relationship. We were able to lean in. My son and I have a better connection than we’ve ever had in our entire lives.
My kids were on the podcast. Everyone got to hear that conversation between my kids and me. At the end of it, my son was like, “Dad, I don’t think you’ve ever said that you’re that proud of me so many times in a short period. It was awesome to hear that.” I’m like, “I should probably tell you a lot more how proud I am of you because I tell everyone else in the world about it. I just haven’t said it enough to you.”
I tell my kids I love them. That’s the biggest a-ha moment for me as a human, an adult, and a father. My daughter is a daddy’s girl. She always has been. She still is. We’ve always been thick as thieves. My son and his mother are also that way. If you look at the flip side of that, my daughter is not as close with her mother, and my son historically had not been very close with me, but all of that has shifted.
My children’s mother and I have stayed very close throughout the years since we’ve not been together. It’s been an interesting modern family type of spend. We both have moved on to different relationships, but our kids have always been the central part of our universe. I know at times, they probably didn’t feel like that, but everything from coming out to sharing as openly as I do about my stage 3 and my stage 4 diagnosis is all to help ease the blow for them and make life better for them.
We talked openly about the fact that had their mother and I stayed married, it would’ve been a very unhappy household. Nobody wants that. I wanted the best for my kids. I wanted them to have the best life. Doing this freed me to be authentically myself. It also gave my kids the ability to truly appreciate the diversity of the people around them. It has been so rewarding to look back.
One of the reasons that I feel I’m ready whenever the time comes for me is because I know that my kids are good to go. Their lives are on the right track. They both have amazing careers. Family life is there. They’re better parents than their mother and I were to them at any point in our journey. There’s so much pride in that. I know I’ve done my due diligence at this point, and I know that they’re positioned to live successful lives. They’ve got a great family support system around them as well. That’s the same family that has supported me for my journeys.
Sending Out 74 Letters To Loved Ones
Let’s go into the Dying Out Loud genesis. You’ve told me a little bit about this story, but not enough. Tell me how it all started. You decided that before you were going to go, you were going to write letters. Was it 74 letters?
Yeah, 74 letters.
What was the purpose of the letters?
I started doing it as a means to occupy myself in the days when I was in the hospital for eight hours at a time. In between your lab appointment, your doctor appointment, and your actual chemo infusion appointment, there are waiting periods. I was hooked up to the chemo machine for a full eight hours, which is like a full business day.
I was getting chemo run through my veins, and I had a lot of time. I did not want to watch TV. I wanted to do something that made me feel like I was either growing as a person or giving back. It started with the idea of writing a letter to my kids individually, 1 to my son and 1 to my daughter, and sharing with them the things that I know I was great at and the things that I sucked at.
In my 30s, when I came out, I was a selfish human being. I wasn’t a bad father by any means, but I was more focused on my journey than my children’s journey. My kids were entering their teen years. That’s when parents need to lean in the most and give the kids all of themselves. Since I was still trying to figure out who I was to better help them be who they were, I lost sight of that. Wanting to convey that in a way that they could comprehend and also carry it with them was important to me.
I’m a decent writer. I started writing letters. It started with Kennedy and Jacob, and then I added my husband, my mother, my brother, my nieces, and my nephews. I then started thinking there are so many more people. I made a list of people. It started out as 60, and then, as I was writing letters and would write an anecdote about a memory, I realized part of that anecdote or memory had another person who also deserved a letter.
Give me the category of the papers. You got your husband. Did you give one to your ex-wife?
I did give my ex-wife a letter. She’s a little nervous to come on the podcast. The kids got letters. I started writing letters to close friends. I wrote a letter to my best friend. Her father was going through his own cancer diagnosis at the same time I got my stage four. She pulled back, which is something cancer patients experience when their friends and family members are not comfortable with dealing with the uncertainty. They don’t know the words to say.
You say that. When people, in general, go through traumatic experiences, whether it is something like having cancer or you’ve had a nervous breakdown, or you’ve gone through divorce, or you’re generally sick, or you’re financially bankrupt and have lost everything, people are very uncomfortable in confronting it.
It’s interesting for me to hear you say that even when you were like, “I’m dying,” people make it about themselves. They’re like, “What am I going to say? How do I deal with it?” They’re not thinking, “This has got nothing to do with you. This is about the other. You need to think about the other and put all your shit aside.”
I’ve been a mentor for people who are newly diagnosed with colon cancer. I’ve talked with a lot of people who are dealing with this either from a caregiver’s perspective or a patient’s perspective. It is more common than not that your circle of support drastically shrinks as you start to face the reality of your diagnosis and start to go through your chemo. Every cancer patient that I have ever spoken to wants one thing from people.
Tell me.
They want space. It doesn’t even have to be filled with conversation. They want somebody to sit with them during their chemo appointments. They don’t want to have a conversation during those appointments. They want somebody in that space with them so that it feels like this isn’t a journey that we’re on by ourselves. Until this is something that you’re dealing with personally, there’s no way to realize the magnitude of what it does.
I have PTSD from having cancer in my 30s. This won’t ever get to remission. We are already on that page. We know, but if something magical happened and I made it to remission, I honestly don’t know how I would ever get back to a sense of normalcy because I’ve been so focused on, “This is the end.” That would be a whole new set of traumas that I would have to unpack at a later date. Granted, I’d be alive, so there’s something to be said for that, but it’s a very heavy mental game to go from fearing your death to feeling like you have energy and presenting in this way where people are like, “Are you even sick?”
People don’t get to see it. There are times at work where I push my mic and my camera off in the middle of a group call, and I go to the bathroom and vomit. I vomit a lot. I then wipe my face off, rinse my mouth out with mouthwash, and I’m back on the camera. Nobody knows that I threw up. Nobody knows that I’ve been glued to the toilet for two days in a row because I don’t let that part of me show up. I show up with the goodness and the energy that I need to show up with to keep me on the right path and to prevent me from getting into a downward spiral.
September is a month that I almost always get into a downward spiral. A year before I got my stage four diagnosis, my father passed away from cancer. It’s an unrelated type of cancer. No one in my family has had a history of colon cancer. I am the unlucky one. Quite honestly, I’m not done grieving my father. It’s been four years since September 17th. We are seven days away from his anniversary. That date holds magnitude.
September 18th is a horrible day for me. September 24th is the day that I got my 1st diagnosis and the confirmation of my 2nd diagnosis. September is a shit month for me. It’s usually when my mental health starts to plummet. I’m doing everything I can. I sent my husband a text message after I arrived at the office and sat down. I said, “As you well know, it’s September. I have noticed in the last couple of days that I have done a few things that signal that I’m about to have a spiral. I want to prepare you because I want your help to make sure that I don’t get to that place this month.”
I sent my mom the same text message. I’m like, “Whatever you can do.” It’s a rough month for my mom because her son has been diagnosed with cancer twice this month, and her husband of more than 50 years passed away a couple of years ago from cancer. My mom is dealing with her own whole set of trauma. That is our biggest challenge in communicating. My mom has so much weight on her shoulders.
I have a lot of weight on my shoulders, but I’m trying to bear it for everyone because I want to leave my family in a better place than they are now. Financially, I’m able to help them out with that. That’s great whenever the insurance policies come in. Emotionally, I feel like most of them are ready for whatever happens. There’s something comforting for me in that because I don’t want people to sit around and cry.
Honestly, whenever it is time to go, it is time to go. I’m exhausted. From the weekend when Saturday gets here, my body is saying, “Stay in bed,” and my mind is like, “I want to be out with people, enjoying life. I want to go to the art festival. I want to go dancing on a Saturday night.” That is crazy to say in your 50s, but there are still Saturday nights when I want to be at a dance club with loud, thumping music and hundreds of people on the dance floor. That’s living for me. I want to be able to do that as long as I can.
How The Dying Out Loud Podcast Came To Be
You wrote all these letters. How did it become a podcast? Tell us what the podcast is.
I had this book full of letters. They’re still in the book. At the beginning of the summer, I started talking with my husband about the logistics. The point was that I wanted those letters to get into the hands of the recipients, but I was thinking much more postmortem. I was thinking, “After I die, I want you to send these.” My husband had the genius idea of, “Why would you want to wait? Let’s either send them now or FaceTime these people and have a conversation with them.” I liked that idea of FaceTiming.
I was talking with my friend, Selena, at work. She was like, “This could be a podcast. This could be something that you could share with the world. It’s a little self-serving because you’re getting to do the emotional part that you want to do, but there are so many lessons that people can gain from hearing a raw, emotional conversation between two people with a great respect for each other or a great love for each other.” As I started reading back through those letters, I was like, “This could be something. It may not go anywhere, but it will get the letters in front of the people.” I will get to read the letters to them myself, so then they walk away with a recording that they can keep for life.
That’s the thing that touched me. You are going to do 74 episodes where you have a conversation with someone who has had a significant bearing on you in your life in some respect, whether it’s family, a friend, a colleague, a mentor, or whatever. I thought that it’s a brilliant idea that these people are going to firstly get to hear from you the open, honest truth around how you truly feel about them, things that maybe bothered you, or things you want to apologize for.
All I felt was that you are going to, number one, feel very light from the experience. You got everything out that you wanted them to hear. They get to experience that, which is a gift in my mind. They get to have that forever, as long as they’re here on earth. I think about your son and your grandchildren. They can come and listen to a conversation that you have. It’s a deep, personal, intimate, sentimental conversation. They can replay that when they want.
In total, it’s a huge soul-connecting experience. The relationship you’ll have with each of them after is going to also bloom, in a sense, because it’s all these things you’ve wanted to say. It’s like what you said about your son. He was like, “I’ve never heard you tell me how proud you are of me in such a short period of time.” You were highlighting that parents and fathers often fall into the trap of being very happy while telling others, “My son did this. My son did that.” How often do you tell your son? I want to tell you that you’re a fucking legend. You’re killing it.
I appreciate that. I already alluded to the fact that I know that I’m doing the work that I’m supposed to be doing. The job that I do for my profession from 9:00 to 5:00, which my hours aren’t that, but you know what I’m saying, quite honestly, is the most rewarding career thing that I’ve ever done in my life. It truly is.
What you’re doing here is a genius initiative to inspire others who are in similar situations. You don’t have to do a podcast, but you can record a conversation.
The beauty is you don’t even have to put pen to paper if you don’t want to. We all have mobile phones in our hands almost every minute of the day. Send a damn text message to the person that you stopped talking to three months ago for the stupidest reason under the sun. Send a text message to your parents to tell them, “I know you tried your best while I was growing up. I carry a lot of PTSD from my childhood, but I still appreciate every opportunity that you provided me. I want you to know from the bottom of my heart that I’m full of freaking gratitude for you.”
I like the recording of it. I like the fact that you’re recording the conversation. They’re hearing it from you, and they get to hear it again.
The lesson for people is that whatever your method is, if you want to do a podcast about it, then freaking do a podcast. Make sure that those words land with the person that you intend them to land with while you are still alive and breathing. Guess what? The only time we’re guaranteed to know that we’re still alive and breathing is this freaking moment. You or I could get struck by lightning in the next 60 seconds. This is a moment that we have.
A great way to spend this time is by reminding people that you don’t know when those sands in that mythical hourglass on your shoulder are going to run out. I’ll be damned if I’m going to let it get done before I get done. This is one of the ways that I can show up. It’s amazing to me. Whenever you start thinking about who your audience for your podcast is, initially, it’s like, “It’s me and the people that I’m reading these letters to.” I don’t give a shit.
You got 74 listeners for life.
This is almost a masterclass in the art of human relationships. I say that because so many people have shared that with me. My boss even says that I am probably the world’s greatest relationship builder. If that were the case, I’d probably be a lot richer than I am now, but I care about people regardless of who they are.
I want you to succeed in life. If there’s a way that I can give you a leg up or provide some insight from my 30 years of experience or my 50 years of life, I want to do that. I want to instill wisdom or lack of wisdom because sometimes, it’s about what we don’t know that we find the strength in. There are so many lessons in this. On the surface, it’s just me and another person talking. I might be insignificant to you, and the person that I’m talking to might be insignificant to you, but I guarantee you that in every single episode, you’ll pick up 3 to 5 nuggets. If you apply them in your life, your relationships get better.
The connections that you have and your ability to be open to connection, all of those things get strengthened, all from listening to a 30-minute conversation on your way to work in the morning. That’s not something that every podcast offers. I’m a true crime podcaster myself. I’m obsessed with true crime, but it’s not teaching me anything except for what the mind of a psychopath looks like. Even listening back to these episodes, as you’re talking with people during the podcast, sometimes, it’s hard to remember all the paths that the conversation takes.
I listen to it again, and I get nuggets after.
You have to. I start adding those things. I’m like, “I can’t even believe she dropped that nugget. I don’t know if we’ve even freaking talked about that point,” or, “I sounded intelligent whenever I said that. I didn’t even realize that’s the way I felt about it, but it is because it showed up in the conversation.” The reach that it could potentially have is amazing to me.
Granted, I don’t know that I’m even going to be around long enough to see what it does. I already know that for the 74 folks, it has addressed something for them and for me that has connected our souls at a deeper level. For the people who are listening who don’t have any skin in the game, who don’t know either of us, and who want to see how people connect on a raw, emotional level, this is it.
There are tears in most episodes. The episode with my children, I probably cried for half of it. You can still hear what I’m saying, but as you watch the video back or play it back on YouTube, you can see that my face is so red. You can see the tears streaming down my face. You can certainly hear my voice breaking throughout the interview. It’s raw and real. It’s every emotion that I have in me in that moment.
The opportunity to connect with all of these individuals has been life-changing for me. Honestly, I never thought I’d say these things to most people. I’m finding that the more open, honest, and transparent I am in these conversations, I get so much back from the people that I am talking to. I’ve learned from people through this that they’ve thought of me in this way or that way, and I never even realized it. Maybe they share a moment that we shared years ago. I remember the moment, but I didn’t necessarily know that it left that mark or impact on them. Getting to know those types of things is also very rewarding.
It’s feeling like it’s Christmas every week, quite honestly. I’m having conversations every week with people, and it’s a powerful exchange of heart. That’s the best way to explain it. Everyone has shown up so willing to receive. People get uncomfortable with receiving things like that, but everyone has shown up so ready to receive this message and engage in conversation. It has truly been one of the most rewarding experiences, with the fact that my husband and I built this together as well.
My husband is the producer. He’s been doing a fantastic job. Honestly, in the last few months, he has grown so exponentially. He’s like, “I could probably start doing this for you, too.” I’ve been doing my own outreach because it’s very personal to me, but he’s like, “You don’t need to worry about that. I can reach out. I can get all this stuff taken care of.” Even seeing how excited he is about this passion project for both of us has been a game-changer. Our relationship, I feel like, was perfect before anyway, but I feel like it went to a new level by sharing something with the emotional magnitude that the podcast has.
I’m blown away. It’s a genius initiative. I’m going to highly recommend it on your behalf. To do what you are doing is so clever on so many levels. I’m surprised it hasn’t been done before in this sort of format. It’s brilliant.
I’m so thankful to folks like you. You’ve carved out the space. You’ve been chatting with people for a while and sharing those. It’s not different from that. It’s just words that I had written. Quite honestly, some of those letters may not ever have made it in the mail to their recipients, so they never would’ve heard it. I’m personally removing those obstacles from it.
Some of the folks who are on have been friends of mine for twenty-plus years. We’ve lost touch because families have grown and people have moved to different parts of the country or moved internationally. I’m reaching back out to them and saying, “I want to spend some time with you. I wrote you a letter while I was in chemo, and I want to share it with you. Would you mind coming on my podcast and letting me verse with you and then deliver this message?”
Everyone has been ecstatic. Traveling down memory lane with all of them, because we do that for a brief period at the beginning of the podcast, has truly been magical. Hearing other people’s memories or their side of the story is something that a lot of people never do. We don’t talk about that. We’re not like, “What did that look like for you?” Getting to hear that is an indescribable feeling. It’s a magical moment that you get to share with people. It has truly been amazing.
Answering Five Rapid-Fire Questions
It’s unreal. We’re going to finish up. I usually shoot five questions to my guests at the end of every podcast. When you respond, don’t make it brief, and do it from the heart. Who would you like to say sorry to, given the chance?
My best friend, Amy. You made me cry. She was the closest human that I’ve ever not been related to or married to in my life. For her own reasons, she decided that this was a journey that she couldn’t go on. I don’t know why I would be apologizing to her because I didn’t do anything wrong besides get sick, but I would love to reconnect with her. I want to put the last couple of years out of the way and move on for the rest of the time that I have. I don’t know that that will ever happen, but that is 100% the person.
What are you proud of being or doing in your life?
My most proud achievement in this world is my children. Their children are quickly being added to that list. I did get to influence my children, and I’m so proud of the humans that they are. They’re loving and caring. They support other people. They welcome everyone. They don’t pay attention to any of the things that some people pay attention to that make them decide whether they’re going to be friends with that person or not.
They’re open-hearted. I feel that from them. I think they got that from me. To see that live on, I’m so proud of that. I’m slowly getting a little bit prouder of myself. It’s going to be awesome if there’s a way after death to be a ghost or something and look back on what this has done for people and how it has impacted them. I know that’s not realistic, but I’d love to be able to see what this could possibly do for people in the long-term.
It would be amazing if there is a way after death to look back on how your life has impacted the people you left behind. Share on XWhen did you receive kindness while needing it most and expecting it least?
That’s hard because I feel like, for the most part, kindness overbounds. I’m so lucky to have the best support system, not just at home, but at work. I feel that every single day. There are times when I’m feeling a little bit on the downside or feeling a little bit extra tired, and I’ll get a text message from somebody who says, “This is me checking in on you. You don’t even have to respond. I just want you to know I’m thinking of you.” There’s so much power in that. You’re not asking anything of me. You want me to know that I’m on your mind. That’s all I need.
It’s so easy.
I don’t ask much of people. I don’t even ask that of people, but to get that on the receiving end, there’s so much power to that. It can turn your day around or boost your day even beyond what it has already become.
That’s a little nugget. Especially when people are going through very difficult times, it could be writing what you said, which is, “I want to let you know I’m thinking of you and checking in.” That’s it. No conversations. No questions. No, “How are you?” It’s just, “I’m thinking about you.”
“How are you?” is such a loaded question for a lot of people, especially people who are maybe going through a journey that we’re not aware of. Honestly, we’re all going through a journey that not a lot of other people are aware of. I find that letting people know that you’re thinking of them is the modern-day and acceptable version of, “How are you?” It says the same thing. It’s the same intention, but you’re not forcing anyone to make up a fake answer like, “I feel like shit,” or, “I’m feeling great today.” You don’t need to know that. The thought that you’re thinking of me means the world.
Letting people know you are thinking of them is the modern-day and less overwhelming version of 'How are you?' Share on XIt’s enough. What did your mother or father teach you that you frequently remind yourself of?
Ideologically, my entire family, my parents and my brother, are on a different side of the camp than I am from a political standpoint. In the United States, everyone’s aware of what is transpiring here. Gay folks are losing their rights. Women are losing their rights. They’re sending the Military into cities and letting them try to take over the police force. I never thought I’d live to see any nightmares like that on our soil.
What my parents taught me was how to love people for who they are and, probably most importantly, how to meet somebody where they’re at in their journey instead of forcing your journey on that person. I’ve lived that from childhood through now. I honestly think that’s the reason why I’ve made the connections and relationships that I’m fortunate enough to have. I’m glad to see that that has also been instilled in my children. They also function that way.
My parents, in their own way, through the things they did right and the things they did wrong, taught me about humanity. I’m on the right side of humanity. My children are on the right side of humanity. That’s what I can do for the world. I can make sure my line of the family is moving forward in a way that we support each other as humans. We want to grow and get better together as a society. There’s not enough of that. They tend to teach who you should hate and who you should not want to listen to.
It is very divisive. Everything is divisive.
I like to approach people with an open heart. My kids do, too. My parents taught me that.
This is the final question. What is Kris’ superpower?
I have come to acknowledge that it is relationship-building. If you had asked me that a few years ago, I would’ve struggled with the answer. I can say with confidence now that I’ve learned that it is relationship-building. That is the reason why I’ve still got my best friend since third grade. She’s still in my life. I’m proud that it’s relationship-building because, quite honestly, nothing happens without people, connection, and collaboration. I’m a master at those things. That’s something I didn’t learn in school. That was something that was innate to me, and I continued to build on it. I’m happy to be a strong, solid relationship-builder.
Get In Touch With Kristopher
Firstly, I want to say thank you for giving your time. You have a truly amazing story of resilience. You truly are an eternal optimist. Folks out there can learn a lot. They can take a leaf out of your book of letters on what mindset or attitude one should have towards the gratitude of life. You finished off with the importance of human connectivity, building relationships, telling the truth, opening up to others, and how rich that can be for all those involved. I loved our conversation.
This was a great way to start my day.
It was beautiful. My wish or what I manifest for you is a fucking amazing September.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
That’s what I want for you.
I appreciate that. It’s been a pleasure.
Important Links
About Kristopher Saim
Dying Out Loud is a podcast about legacy, love, and living on purpose—even when time is short. Hosted by Kristopher Saim, a leadership coach, speaker, and eternal optimist navigating terminal cancer, each episode features heartfelt conversations with friends, family, and colleagues. Through stories of impact, gratitude, and intentional goodbyes, Dying Out Loud invites listeners to reflect on what truly matters, and to live a little louder while they can.
